Reloading .223

[happypupy]

I love shooting. I love shooting alot. I do not however love paying a premium for ammunition from a factory. Some I can understand, but alot I can't. I've been reloading for years, mostly .308, but I've been shooting my AR more and more over the past year and I'm sorry, but if I'm going to pay a dollar a round, I'm going to just load it myself.

So on to the point.

Does anyone have a good recipe for .223? I've got few, but I'm looking for some feed back on some loads that people have had good results with.

Thanks in advance.

[SongDoghunter]

26 grains H335 and a 50 gr. V max

[SKIBO]

try varget . it works the best with most loads . if you want , i can send you some loads i have used , and have worked very good for me in an ar style rifle.

[happypupy]

Hey, that'd be great if you could send me a couple rescipes.

Thanks!

[RenegadeRN]

Hmmm...I'm with Doghunter. H335 for anything up to 55grainers and heavier I got to Varget. Varget works great for those 80grain Berger VLD's singly loaded for long distance work and 1:8 twist barrels.

[longshot1911]

I'll second the Varget for the heavier bullets. Works great behind Berger 90g through the 1-6.5 Kreiger on my service rifle. I would not recommend as quickly with lighter bullets, as it can be a pain to meter, and occasionally will bridge if you are using a progressive press with a press mounted powder measurer. Stick with a good ball powder and you can't go wrong. I have had good luck with RamShot TAC, though H335 and BL-C(2) both work equally well AND you can use them in .308 as well.

[SongDoghunter]

I use an RCBS Loadmaster dispenser and the RCBS digital scale with all powders, both sperical and extruded. The screw drive is dead on with every load. If you happen to bump the machine and dump a few extra kernels of powder, you can always dump that harge right back into the hopper.

The biggest problem with the extruded powders and the small case calibers is getting all of the powder into the case without filling the case neck and mouth. I use the extended funnel for these and pour the powder a little slower than normal.

[alien319]

Yes, yes indeed, I need to get into reloading. I have my Rem 700 long range rig, that I need to work a great long range load and a good hunting load. I was thinking for the long range load of using Lapua brass and 155 gr Lapua Scenars, with 46 grains of Varget. Hunting load maybe, 165 gr or 150 gr Hornady SST, not sure what powder, maybe the same? What do you guys think. Twist Rate in my 700 is 1-12. Believe it or not, it handles 175 gr bullets pretty well. I have used the military sniper round, 175 gr SMK, M118LR. It's fairly accurate for a factory produced round. However, no more accurate than my factory Hornady SST ammo.

[SongDoghunter]

Please don't be offended guys if I fail to climb on board with you fellas and your exotic choice of rounds!

I am constantly amazed at how much hunters and shooters go out of their way to spend big bucks and cause great headache with some of these custom ammo varieties. Lapua Brass is great as are many of these custom bullets. However, when it boils right down to it, I can take a once fired Winchester factory brass cartridge and reload it with a variety of easy to get powders and a Nosler bullet and shoot a MOA or less all day long with about any modern firearm riding around in your pickups. With that said, why all the hype over these odd combos of brass, powder and bullets? Perhaps you all just like the challenge of rounding all of this stuff up? For hunting, how much tighter group do you need than MOA? I can even understand if you are looking for a hobby round just to fool with, but for everyday use in North Carolina, .270, 30.06, and .308 has it covered! As far as long range, the load is no better than the optics and varies little from the hunting load. Again, just trying to add to the debate, not rain on your parade! :mrgreen:

[longshot1911]

For hunting, I would agree, as almost all responsible shots are taken within 200 yards. For shooting, that is another story. I shoot 600 yds with iron sights during service rifle matches (.223), and will be shooting F class and Palma up north next season out to 1000. For these games, you will find bullet selection and case prep a bit more critical. Lapua brass is really, really good, but then, so is properly prepped and sorted winchester. Attention to detail and careful load development results in low extreme velocity spreads. It is easy to get 1 moa at 100yds. Out past 500, vertical stringing becomes more of an issue due to velocity variation. For those of us who are not masters at calling the wind a bullet with a higher BC can provide a slight competitive edge in long range shooting by minimizing horizontal wind drift. Now some may disagree, but I am not too fond of using JHP Match bullets for hunting. Fortunately, we are blessed with an well constructed bullets from Nosler, Hornady, and Speer that do reasonably well at long range.

To add to the debate... I would suggest that some people just enjoy reloading (myself included). The ritual of brass prep (sizing, trimming, chamfering, neck turning, de-burring the flash hole, uniforming the primer pocket, weight sorting-most of which is unnecessary on Lapua brass) is all part of the care and enjoyment of making precision ammo. Is all of this necessary? No. Neither is weighing every charge. Do I do it on my 600yd line ammo? Yes. Why leave anything to chance. If I miss a shot, I know it was me, not the ammo. But then again, most competitive shooters play similar head games (talk to a bench-rest shooter sometime). For me, the time, effort, and pride of making the best ammo possible is part of the fun.

For short range ammo (300yds and less), I use a progressive press (Dillon 1000), reload in batches of 1000, and other than my powder checker die station, never weigh a single charge once the machine is set up. This is why I prefer spherical powders. Less bridging, better flow on a progressive press. And yes, all of my ammo loaded this way will shoot sub MOA in any gun worth its wood (or plastic).

Now, If you want exotic... I have a thing for Ackley Improved cartridges (and the whispers, and K hornets, and...). I currently own rifles that I have re-barreled and chambered in 280AI, 30-06AI, and 35 Wheelen AI. Do I realize better performance? Perhaps. But more importantly, they look cool, and no one else has one. And that, my friends, is all the reason a real gun nut needs for owning something off the wall and different.

[fmrleatherneck]

Well put, longshot! It's all about the fun!

[RenegadeRN]

Oh come on....now admit it. Reloading and even case prep becomes as much a hobby as shooting does. So many powders, so many bullets, so little time to try to 'squeeze' that last .5 inch outta that group.

And I do agree with the others that case prep is not critical for hunting....but at least for me I am anal about things and I become anal about case prep for hunting as well. Most case prep like flash hole deburring and primer pocket reaming is a one time thing.

The one thing, the one big thing that no one has really talked about is just plainly spending some time behind the gun. I used to shoot skeet extensively and you'd be surprised how many people never knew where their shotgun printed. Ya need to spend sometime behind the gun at ranges more than 100yards (ain't many places in eastern NC). And as Longshot mentioned, things change after 100yards. He's rebarreled, but there is something to say about having a trigger job done, being glass bedded, barrel floated if these things need being done. Then some trigger time. I'm reminded of BRASS acronym: Breath, Relax, Aim, Stop and Squeeze. We can do all the case prep, weigh cases, weigh bullets, weight powders, use BR primers and it can all be for nothing if we do not spend time behind the trigger. Coz we all know the guy who buys 20 off the shelf, takes it out and shoots it 10times to get it sighted in and calls it good.

[longshot1911]

RenegadeRN, you are absolutely correct. Ammunition loading is just one small part of the equation. There is no substitute for practicing the fundamentals. As you mentioned, not allot of places to shoot distance in NC. Once they started shooting matches on weekends at Stone Bay (Thank you AC Webster), I needed a place to practice. For me, that practice took place in my living room. Because I have faith in my rifle (Good barrel, good trigger, good sights), and I keep an extensive logbook of load development and meticulous preparation of ammo, the big area for improvement was the nut behind the gun. Every night for two weeks before a match, I would lay out my shooting mat, spotting scope, ammo cart, shooting jacket, magazines, glove, data book, and rifle just as I would one the firing line. I would practice setup and teardown so I would know exactly where I want everything to sit (This saves allot of time on competition day, allowing you more time to find your natural point of aim) Anyway, I would don all of my gear and snap in on a sheet of paper with a small black dot in standing, sitting, and prone. Most Marines gaff this part of marksmanship off, as it is usually too hot/cold/rainy/enter excuse in here. It is in this snapping in that you learn and refine your position. You observe how your pulse and breathing affect the rifle, and you master the break in the trigger. While a high round count can make you a better shooter, I feel that focus and practice of the fundamentals is more important. In my last 4 matches, my score markedly improved with not a single shot fired between.

As for gunsmithing... that is a whole other can of worms. With any factory gun, I always cut a new crown, glass bed and free float. That works out 90% of the demons a poor shooter will have (bolt action). Similar tricks apply to single shot and lever action rifles. Proper trigger adjustment can help a shooter, but many inexperienced shooters use this as a crutch for proper trigger control. Mashing a light trigger may not show up as bad on paper as mashing a heavy one, but it still instills bad habits and can be unsafe. While I have one bench rifle with a 2oz jewell trigger (yeah, be careful with that one), most of my triggers are a clean, crisp 4lb or so.

For the more detail oriented... When I cut the chamber of a new barrel, I take note of the ammunition (bullet profile) I intend to shoot in that gun. I prefer reamers with minimal throat dimensions, allowing me to custom cut the throat separately with a throating reamer. This way, I cut the throat to match the bullet at the desired seating depth. On a single shot rifle, this is a moot point, but on a magazine fed rifle, one can optimize accuracy by keeping bullet jump to a minimum while maintaining mag length ammo. It can be a real pain to find that perfect load that is maybe 7thou off the lands only to find it will not fit in you magazine. On a rifle you intend to shoot alot, blueprinting your chamber and noting throat erosion over the course of the chamber can explain changes in accuracy. Sometimes just chasing throat erosion by decreasing seating depth is all that is required. The most important thing here is to keep records of EVERYTHING.

In summery, there is allot you can do to both your gun and ammo to improve accuracy-of the equipment. Without the proper application of skill by the shooter, all is for naught. Just my thoughts.

[SongDoghunter]

To add to the debate... I would suggest that some people just enjoy reloading (myself included). The ritual of brass prep (sizing, trimming, chamfering, neck turning, de-burring the flash hole, uniforming the primer pocket, weight sorting-most of which is unnecessary on Lapua brass) is all part of the care and enjoyment of making precision ammo. Is all of this necessary? No. Neither is weighing every charge. Do I do it on my 600yd line ammo? Yes. Why leave anything to chance. If I miss a shot, I know it was me, not the ammo. But then again, most competitive shooters play similar head games (talk to a bench-rest shooter sometime). For me, the time, effort, and pride of making the best ammo possible is part of the fun.

I completely understand Longshot and I too used to follow several of the rituals you mentioned. However, other than for match shooting whereby you are weighing every charge, sorting brass, using an external ballistics software program etc., my experience has been that most of that prep can be tossed out the window with the dishwater! I can sloppily load a handful of my .204 or .223 rounds without even cleaning, sorting, or weighing the brass, cleaning or uniforming the primer pocket, choosing bullets from the same lot number etc., and spank a 3 inch by 6 inch prarie dog silloutte every time at 400 yards with decent wind conditions. I just loaded a few 22-250 rounds for a Nosler Custom rifle I have on loan with the first thing that popped into my head and shot 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards. No special prep, neck sizing etc. involved. I agree there is something to be said about the 1000 yard shooting etc, but those rifles and loads are useful for that purpose only and serve no other function for 300-400 yard shooting or hunting. You are right that some just enjoy reloading. Personally, I enjoy it also but like to expedite the process by sticking to the basics and producing an easy round that will easily outperform any factory load available with minimal effort. Call me lazy!! :lol:

[RenegadeRN]

Doghunter....It's still the most important reason to reload. You can easily out do factory. Plus you have a myriad of bullets to do it with in a variety of weights. And in many cases it is a bit cheaper.

[SongDoghunter]

You are most correctly right! :mrgreen: